tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post3190779184247911436..comments2023-06-12T16:28:37.421+01:00Comments on A View from England: British mothers still not equal to British fathers!Maureenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05594795794677984027noreply@blogger.comBlogger66125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-366747187799969322015-09-02T14:24:05.407+01:002015-09-02T14:24:05.407+01:00Hi everyone, Wow, reading some of the replies on h...Hi everyone, Wow, reading some of the replies on here is amazing and answered a few of the questions i had so thank you! i just recently applied for my British Citizenship (UKM) and Passport that cost me R9278.00 but i have a while to go before i know the outcome. I was born in South Africa in 1975 and my mother was born in the UK but came over to SA with her family. My Grandfather was in the British Navy for over 30 years and my grandmother was an Usher for the queen but because of the Navy, he was shipped to South Africa in 1962. My Mom was 7 at the time and i actually have a newspaper clipping about the "big" event. They have lived here ever since. Now i want to immigrate to the UK with my children and i am stressing a little. My boss wants to know what the chances are that my application will be unsuccessful! How do i answer that? I don't want to think negative but is there a possibility it can be rejected? My eldest son applied for his Ancestral Visa and that cost me R31800.00 (i am still in shock) also still waiting for his outcome. My other kids have Portuguese passports so they are covered. Can anyone maybe help me get these negative thoughts out of my head? <br />A fiancé just said something interesting to me now. "it is harder to prove that a man is the father without DNA testing and such, and it is easy to tell if a child is the mothers. So why not give the children equal rights to those who were born to British mothers? “<br />Thank you all.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13166416272920637128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-71675818336827417652015-05-28T15:09:28.557+01:002015-05-28T15:09:28.557+01:00Why not try to get Jay Leno on board instead? His ...Why not try to get Jay Leno on board instead? His mother was Scottish too and I remember a very funny story Leno wrote in his biography regarding this topic.<br />When her mother applied for American citizenship she had to answer a number of questions asked by an immigration officer, the first of these being "What is the US constitution?". She answered "It's a ship" (getting confused with a local New England attraction...the USS Constitution) and until the day she died whenever someone knocked on the door she feared someone had finally decided to deport her back to Scotland!Christiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-25738199182259520932014-05-04T12:57:27.532+01:002014-05-04T12:57:27.532+01:00is there any progress on this issue i just found o...is there any progress on this issue i just found out i currently have no citizenship and due to marry in 10 wks Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06691572168100006243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-16991066417829131992012-10-24T02:11:39.102+01:002012-10-24T02:11:39.102+01:00I received my British citizenship on October 4th t...I received my British citizenship on October 4th through form UKM.<br /><br />For those who don't have their mother's passport, since my Mom passed away back in 1996, they accepted a photocopy of her death certificate. Hope this helps!Carolenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-43048411883868941202012-09-27T02:01:10.644+01:002012-09-27T02:01:10.644+01:00my son was born in australia 1976 repatriated with...my son was born in australia 1976 repatriated with me in that year and remained here until thyis day. he has now been told that because he was born before 1983 he is ineligible for his first british passport. and needs to jump through the very expensive hoop to get naturalised before he can do so we sre in aflat spin as you can imagine, so will definitely visit your site and anywhere elsefor help and support and to aid others, it seems very ageinst and sexist as well as draconian to me. bless your effoirts etc.x.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-39627174967550369572012-06-24T00:21:26.636+01:002012-06-24T00:21:26.636+01:00I received my British citizenship (Certificate of ...I received my British citizenship (Certificate of Registration) under section 4c on 10th February 2011 as a result of recent changes to the British nationality act on 06th January 2010 (previously the British Nationality Act and citizenship law was amended to grant citizenship to those born after 07th February 1961. I have 2 children 10 and 12 and I would like to register them as British citizens. Since I have not lived in the past for 3 years continuous I cannot register them automatically they can only be registere at the discretion of the Home Office. They changed the law so late in our life that I never had the option to have them born in the UK - is that fair? How difficult is it to get a discretion to register them as british citizens?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-20498485793871106432011-09-03T00:25:04.454+01:002011-09-03T00:25:04.454+01:00I'm closing comments to this post now. I have ...I'm closing comments to this post now. I have created a website to focus on the citizenship issue and you are welcome to leave comments:<br /><br />http://britishbydescent.wordpress.com/Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05594795794677984027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-78188145498478557872011-09-03T00:21:57.043+01:002011-09-03T00:21:57.043+01:00Well said, Tim!Well said, Tim!Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05594795794677984027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-5386807893242889522011-08-28T05:06:29.292+01:002011-08-28T05:06:29.292+01:00I must comment to the "Anonymous" above ...I must comment to the "Anonymous" above who states that "I should be glad I have the opportunity" to gain my citizenship. I have a letter from the British Immigration Directorate, in response to an appeal I made to them, some fifteen years ago, to grant me the same rights as those of my three British-born siblings, so that I did not have to be separated from them on arriving in Britain, and be treated as an "ALIEN", which stated that if they grant the children of British mothers the same rights as British fathers, and I quote, "It would have gone against the theme of the 1981 Act and increased the number of citizens overseas.....". The Britsh Government then promptly passed legislation granting lifetime residence and working rights, to millions of European Union citizens. So please don't tell me that I should be "glad".Timnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-32204639688345431752011-07-20T23:12:42.592+01:002011-07-20T23:12:42.592+01:00Certificates of Entitlement to the Right of Abode ...Certificates of Entitlement to the Right of Abode were previously known as Certificates of Patriality, not Paternity, as a previous stated.<br /><br />The 1961 cutoff date was based upon a policy change announced by the Home Secretary in 1979. This is what was announced (written answer) in the House of Commons on 07 February 1979:<br /><br />MRS. JEGER asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what action he now proposes to take to help mothers born in the United Kingdom who cannot transmit citizenship to their children born overseas in the way that men can; and if he will make a statement.<br /><br />MR. MERLYN REES The Registration of minor children as citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies under section 7(1) of the British Nationality Act 1948 is at my discretion. I have decided to make some alterations to the general policy in dealing with applications by women who were born in the United Kingdom and whose children born overseas are still minors. The practice hitherto has been to refuse registration if it appeared that the child was likely to live overseas or if, when the child was living in this country, the father had taken no steps to seek our citizenship for himself.<br /><br />In future, registration will not be refused on those grounds and a woman born in the United Kingdom will normally be able to have her child registered, subject to there being no well founded objection by the father--as there could be, for example, if registration would deprive the child of his or her existing citizenship. The notes for the guidance of intending applicants will be suitably amended.<br /><br />The whole question of transmisiion of citizenship in the female line will be a matter to be dealt with in future nationality legislation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-90566988631233163692011-07-19T00:11:23.537+01:002011-07-19T00:11:23.537+01:00Also, thank you for the other information Tony. I ...Also, thank you for the other information Tony. I will look into that.Maureenhttp://brilliantbritain.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-15481466923520338182011-07-19T00:09:08.299+01:002011-07-19T00:09:08.299+01:00To the Anonymous above, what you write is quite wr...To the Anonymous above, what you write is quite wrong. The United States, for example, grants full citizenship from birth to children of any age of U.S. citizen parents, regardless of gender of the parent. Closer to home, the Irish government does the same thing, and that citizenship is transmissible for at least 2 generations. <br /><br />There is nothing exceptional about granting citizenship to foreign-born children of citizen parents, except for the gender and age discrimination, of course.<br /><br />TonyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-36939241955861877392011-07-19T00:08:22.847+01:002011-07-19T00:08:22.847+01:00Tony, thank you for your offer to help out. Writin...Tony, thank you for your offer to help out. Writing to your MP would be helpful. Also, write to Theresa May, the Home Secretary.Maureenhttp://brilliantbritain.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-76273185262907979052011-07-18T23:56:39.705+01:002011-07-18T23:56:39.705+01:00Wow. This comment by Anonymous is something else:
...Wow. This comment by Anonymous is something else:<br /><br />Anonymous said... <br /><br />"Laws regarding the transmission of citizenship (to children born abroad) are primarily designed to help minors and stateless adults. What the British Government has done by allowing adult children of British mothers to be registered as British Citizens (even if not stateless) is exceptional. Those seeking citizenship this way should be glad they have this opportunity, regardless of the difficulties involved." <br /><br />Dear Anonymous, Your patronizing view about this issue only makes me all the more determined to fight for citizenship equality.<br /> <br />This "opportunity" to be registered as British Citizens, certainly does not make me "glad". On the contrary, I'm disgusted with the way this important issue has been treated by MPs, and very angry that we are expected to accept unjustified discrimination. I for one, do not.Maureenhttp://brilliantbritain.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-32142156632526636082011-07-18T18:38:09.750+01:002011-07-18T18:38:09.750+01:00Maureen, there are very interesting documents from...Maureen, there are very interesting documents from the Immigration Law Practitioners' Association which made numerous suggestions for reform prior to the 2009 Act. See for example <br />http://www.ilpa.org.uk/submissions/Citizenship%20Review.doc<br /><br />At least one of their proposals that applies to us (doing away with the 7th Feb 1961 date) was accepted, but very interestingly, they question the very purpose of the Citizenship by Registration vs. Citizenship by "other than registration" distinction.<br /><br />Maybe this is the reform we should be pushing for (abolishing Citizenship by Registration) rather than piecemeal reforms of dates and gender-based rules that exist today. Anyone with a British-born parent should be simply British. If they want to limit the number of generations that a family living abroad can transmit citizenship, they could follow the American model.<br /><br />TonyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-21383379579404606432011-07-18T16:02:38.891+01:002011-07-18T16:02:38.891+01:00Laws regarding the transmission of citizenship (to...Laws regarding the transmission of citizenship (to children born abroad) are primarily designed to help minors and stateless adults. What the British Government has done by allowing adult children of British mothers to be registered as British Citizens (even if not stateless) is exceptional. Those seeking citizenship this way should be glad they have this opportunity, regardless of the difficulties involved.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-17363424469029897052011-07-18T04:13:29.657+01:002011-07-18T04:13:29.657+01:00I agree entirely with your last point. Citizenship...I agree entirely with your last point. Citizenship is the most basic right that a society can bestow. It should not be this arbitrary and discriminatory. When I looked into the Parliamentary discussions on the infamous Feb 7th 1961 date, no one seemed to know how that odd date was even chosen. Totally capricious it seems!<br /><br />Nobody who is a British citizen by birth should have to produce letters of "good" character, attend ceremonies, swear oaths etc. It's either a birthright or it's not, and if it's a birthright for some, then it should be for all. <br /><br />Is there anything that we in the now pre-1983 group (used to be the pre-8 Feb 1961 group!) can do to help you Maureen? Just maintaining this blog is such a valuable tool for these discussions, thank you so much. I've thought about writing to the MP for my mother's old constituency but I've know idea if that's a good idea. What do people think is the best approach? Wait until another citizenship/nationality bill comes up and hope to get this issue on the docket? I'm pretty clueless about British parliamentary lobbying. <br /><br />TonyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-25051575807506445762011-07-18T01:12:11.882+01:002011-07-18T01:12:11.882+01:00You're right Tony. It is age discrimination to...You're right Tony. It is age discrimination too. If my father had been British - or if I were younger - there would be no registration and no citizenship ceremony. <br /><br />There is one other group being discriminated against too: Children born before 2006 to unmarried British male citizens. In fact they are even denied the right to register. <br /><br />The right to claim British citizenship by descent (without conditions) should be for everyone, not just a select group.Maureenhttp://brilliantbritain.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-32546338005080487992011-07-17T21:51:20.506+01:002011-07-17T21:51:20.506+01:00Isn't it also age discrimination because anyon...Isn't it also age discrimination because anyone born after 1982 acquires British citizenship regardless of the parent's gender? As far as I can see, the only group singled out for unfair treatment are people over the age of 29 who have a British mother (or am I wrong on this point?). To me, the age discrimination is as much an issue as the parental gender inequality when it comes to passing on citizenship.<br /><br />TonyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-33653436563773016752011-07-17T21:09:27.732+01:002011-07-17T21:09:27.732+01:00Hi Tony. It's unjustified discrimination, that...Hi Tony. It's unjustified discrimination, that's what it is. I refuse to accept this unfair route to citizenship. The "conditions" -registration and a ceremony - are intended for foreigners (those without a British parent!). <br /><br />It's disgraceful that all British parents don't have the same right to pass on "unconditional" citizenship to their chldren. Hence my campaign for citizenship equality.Maureenhttp://brilliantbritain.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-76624938241039711482011-07-17T17:34:28.974+01:002011-07-17T17:34:28.974+01:00I can't believe that someone registering a cla...I can't believe that someone registering a claim to citizenship by birthright has to attend any ceremony at all. Birthright means birthright! Their "ceremony" was their own birth to a British mother, which we know they attended. And to single out those for this ceremony based on the gender of their British parent is even more absurd. It's so hard to believe that this sort of anachronism persists today.<br /><br />TonyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-77698706056254801122011-07-17T15:55:32.290+01:002011-07-17T15:55:32.290+01:00Elizabeth, I understand why some people such as yo...Elizabeth, I understand why some people such as your son, feel it's necessary to register rather than wait and see if the campaign for citizenship equality is successful. It's awful that this blatant discrimination is still ongoing and I greatly appreciate your offer to continue to suppport the campaign. <br /><br />I'm impressed with your ability to hold your tongue at the ceremony! It's bad enough that the ceremony is required but it must have been so much worse when the official kept asking such an insulting question! <br /><br />Yes, we could certainly use people such as Donald Trump on board the campaign. In the meantime, it's down to spreading the word as much as possible and putting pressure on MPs to correct this unjust law. <br /><br />Thanks for sharing the information about the documents you sent in and about your son's experience at the citizenship ceremony. And again, thanks for your offer to support the campaign. It's heartening to know I'm not alone.Maureenhttp://brilliantbritain.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-89618890022966248962011-07-17T14:51:34.412+01:002011-07-17T14:51:34.412+01:00I hesitate to add my comments to this Maureen beca...I hesitate to add my comments to this Maureen because my son has sort of betrayed the whole campaign by going through the registration process here in the UK. I think you know the reasoning behind it in that with his work he could possibly be sent anywhere in Europe for a length of time that would render the ILR stamp in his US passport null and void thereby incurring all sorts of problems with re-entry to the UK.<br /><br />So I'm afraid to say that he has gone through the very insulting citizenship ceremony here in Scotland which was an absolute farce but at least he's got his certificate and can now apply for the passport.<br /><br />However, I am still willing and very able to keep up the pressure whichever way is required to put a stop to the whole process because out of 9 people at the ceremony, my son was the only one registering and with a birthright. The other 8 were full immigrants.<br /><br />The fact that the official in charge of the ceremony kept asking why it had taken so long for Iain to become "LEGAL" just added fuel to the fire. Naturally she didn't know anything about our plight but it totally disgusted my daughter-in-law and I and it took a very great resolve not to jump on my soap box.<br /><br />That said I felt the whole ceremony was very patronising to those seeking naturalisation and I was very embarrassed throughout the whole thing.<br /><br />I am very sorry people overseas are having such a hard time with documentation. I sent in my birth certificate and my expired passport just to be on the safe side and I have to say that Iain's application took exactly six weeks without the need to contact any of the referees but then he has been resident in the UK for 35 years so I suppose that helped.<br /><br />Sorry for the ramble but just wanted to voice my support again to the campaign and to let you know that my son and I are still 100% behind those seeking to have the discrimination recognised and abolished.<br /><br />I was interested to read on Michael Turberville's website that Donald Trump is in exactly the same situation - his mother being from Scotland too. Pity we couldn't get him on board.<br /><br />ElizabethElizabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05665262756582713802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-83893677231080110692011-07-17T03:16:56.096+01:002011-07-17T03:16:56.096+01:00You're right it is unfair, but they want to ma...You're right it is unfair, but they want to make it a happy occasion. If I lived closer to the consulate I'd be happier, especially in these poor economic times, it's a hardship for anyone without boatloads of cash to travel to attend a ceremony. <br /><br />Don't get me wrong, it'd be something to remember, the ceremony- just without spending so much to register. <br /><br />However people spin it, it's still blatant discrimination against British mothers, and a free ride for children of British fathers who don't have to jump through hoops and spend out of pocket. (I realize there's still bias against unmarried parents.) <br /><br />One day I'll look back on this and say, but after I "registered" they made the changes to be equal and fair!<br /><br />Thanks for the good wishes for the day!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6492893503803541461.post-7946109274869434902011-07-16T23:41:12.039+01:002011-07-16T23:41:12.039+01:00Thank you for sharing your experience. I can't...Thank you for sharing your experience. I can't believe all the rigmarole you have been put through. It's ridiculous that they make this so difficult. And it's very unfair that you have to register and attend a ceremony. <br /><br />Hope everything goes well for your day.Maureenhttp://brilliantbritain.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com